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https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/the-pineapple-project/lets-talk-about-death-baby/11959104

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[00:00:01] Voiceover: This is an ABC podcast.

[00:00:07] Jan Fran: There’s always a sense of denial that comes into your mind like whenever, I mean, I experience it like whenever I think about Frasier, the best cat in the world, my cat, I know that he will eventually die, but then there’s this little voice in my head that says, “Well, maybe he won’t.” And I know, it’s ridiculous but it makes me feel good. So I’d sometimes would just go with it. Even though I know, it’s irrational and it’s not logical and it’s yeah, it’s denial.

[00:00:37] Mira: Yeah, it’s total denial.

[00:00:39] Jan Fran: It’s denial.

[00:00:41] Mira: But sometimes denial is comfortable.

[00:00:44] Jan Fran: Hello, it’s Jan Fran here. This is The Pineapple Project and that’s my sister, Mira. I’m about to have an uncomfortable conversation. Neither of us want to be here, truth be told.

[00:00:57] Mira: But I think that we do have to think about death at some point.

[00:01:03] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:01:04] Mira: But maybe, maybe when it happens, is the point. I don’t know.

[00:01:10] Jan Fran: That’s the thing though. It’s like I think I want to try and bring this topic up with the fam. And I just think that they’re not going to be into it. I think they’re just going to, you know, change the subject. Or leave the room or like cross themselves 1000 times and it’s like say a prayer to the Virgin Mary. Like I think that’s what will actually happen, if I..

[00:01:35] Mira: Yeah, or like anytime dad wants to exit himself from a conversation, he just goes to sleep.

[00:01:39] Jan Fran: Yeah. He’ll just fall asleep, immediately.

[00:01:44] Mira: Yeah. I mean, it’s a particularly for them. I mean they’re in their 60s. I feel like, possibly the later you get in life the more you contemplate your immortality, you know, at least when we contemplate our mortality, we’re like up. I mean unless I get hit by a bus tomorrow or like, you know something —

[00:02:07] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:02:08] Mira: —really crazy happens. I’ve still got maybe a good 40 to 50 years, but like with them it’s like whoa, you know, things are probably going to start cracking in the next ten..

[00:02:17] Jan Fran: Like I just don’t think that they would be down for it.

[00:02:20] Mira: Mom doesn’t like to talk about it. Mom is of that mentality where it’s like no, don’t talk about things that will make you sad. That’s just not how you get through life. You can’t think about sad things.

[00:02:30] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:02:31] Mira: Yeah.

[00:02:31] Jan Fran: But also I think she thinks that like if you do talk about death like you will it. You know, or yeah, it’s like you bring it on or something.

[00:02:40] Mira: Yeah, totally. She’s a little bit superstitious like that. Where I mean, yeah, a lot of people think about that like manifesting what you want in life and if you are constantly thinking about death that maybe it’ll happen.

[00:02:55] Jan Fran: Well, it will happen. What do you think about that?

[00:02:58] Mira: But it might not for us.

[00:03:05] Jan Fran: That’s the insanity of it. It’s like..

[00:03:08] Mira: Yeah, no. It will happen. I’m fairly certain of that.

[00:03:12] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:03:13] Mira: You know.

[00:03:14] Jan Fran: So here we all are. It’s the last episode and yeah, I reckon we’ve gotten pretty good at planning for this whole death malarkey. If I said, “Mate, somebody’s died and no one knows where the will is,” you’d be all like, “I’ll just ask the executor and have this sorted out in a jiffy.” If I asked you to plan a funeral, you’d probably be like, “Sure, Jan. What’s your preference? Cremation? Burial? Metallic gold coffin? Or a hand woven eco shroud?” You’ve already nominated someone to take over your social media accounts when you died and you’ve given a mate a tap on the shoulder to clean out your bedside table. Blink, blink. In fact, if I called you tonight and said, “There’s a dead body. What do I do with it?” You’d be like, “Hey, chill we got this. Let’s make a couple of phone calls, eh. Get the death certificate sorted and actually you should probably lay low for a while.” Am I right? Bit of a murder joke there. Tasteless. Now, that’s all well and good. But if your people are anything like my people that is going to require at least one rather tricky conversation. So it sounds like you might need to take a little class called Awkward Conversations about Death 101. Our teacher today is Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly.

[00:04:45] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: This stuff is some of the most full on stuff that we can be thinking about. I mean, it’s life and death literally.

[00:04:50] Jan Fran: Dr. Ursula should know. She’s a clinical psychologist and post-doctoral research fellow at the University of New South Wales. She works with young people and their families dealing with cancer. So, Dr. Ursula, tell me, how do I start this conversation?

[00:05:07] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: Start with taking the pressure off? It’s maybe not the sort of conversation that you’re going to want to have sitting around the dinner table particularly if your family is really nervous or really awkward about it or just so, so superstitious. They just don’t even want to touch it, so think about different ways that you can maybe, you know, ease in a bit slowly like, you know, is there a way that you can have a chat while you walk a dog, take a drive, maybe cook something, make dumplings, you know, this means you’re not intensely staring into each other’s eyes and you can sort of regulate the emotional intensity of the conversation when things get hard, you can step back and focus on something else.

[00:05:45] Jan Fran: If I said, “I need to talk to you about dying. Will you come on a walk with me?” my sisters would literally assume I was dying and become inconsolable.

[00:05:56] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly:  Yeah, and I mean, I think you could probably play around with different ways to sort of enter into that conversation, but totally good point. I think you got to start with something real that matters, right? Maybe give them a “why.” You know, why you’re talking about this and kids are really good way to start if something happened to me. Here’s what I would want for the kids. You know, here’s how I’d want them to be looked after and what set of grandparents, what Auntie isn’t going to be on board with talking about that.

[00:06:22] Jan Fran: But I only have a cat.

[00:06:23] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: Yeah absolutely said. Maybe have a think about other things that are important to you. So you know, are you a traveler? Are you someone that hates pain? Are you someone who, you know, is a bit socially anxious or loves to be surrounded by your friends. You know, who are you, at your heart because all of that factors in when you’re really sick and you know, if you’re potentially facing the end of your life. So I think there are lots of different ends. So say the travelling, example, lots of us, it’s really important to get experiences to see different places. And so for many of us being able to keep doing that for as long as we could would be really important and meaningful. So, you know, have a think about what that would mean, for, if I was really sick. Would I still want you to, you know, help me to go new places as much as possible until I couldn’t anymore, you know, there’s different ways to think about that but starting with something that matters to you as an individual and your personality is a good way to think about it.

[00:07:17] Jan Fran: And it makes sense. I’d want to talk about it. I mean, I’m very particular about certain things in life, like who threads my eyebrows.

[00:07:25] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: Well, we can’t assume this stuff about each other, right? Like, you know, we have really strong preferences about all these different things in our lives, you know about how we have our sandwiches cut how our hair is styled, you know, all that kind of stuff. Why wouldn’t we have preferences about stuff that’s as important as where we would want to die or whether we would want to be cremated or buried but the thing is we are not mind readers and even our nearest and dearest we can sometimes get so wrong what we think they would want because if we don’t have that conversation, then that’s where people are left at the end of the day just guessing.

[00:07:57] Jan Fran: I haven’t been able to talk about death with my mother before because she just starts crossing herself immediately. Like I’ve jinxed her and somehow brought the death on. So how does one deal with this?

[00:08:08] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: You know, parents’re different, every family is different. But if you notice that your, you feel like you’re pushing up a hill just trying to open the door to the conversation, you can just call it and just say, “Yeah, this is really full-on, isn’t it? This is really intense,” you know and and kind of even clarify, you know, I don’t want any of this stuff to happen. And I’m not talking about this because I want to die or I want you to die, you know, but I want you to know what I would want if it happened and having this conversation with me is actually really helping me because that way I know that you know, my nearest and dearest loved ones have my wishes and know what I want in their hearts and that’s really important to me.

[00:08:49] Jan Fran: Well that conversation might last a whole two minutes.

[00:08:52] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: And that’s okay two minutes can be gold, you know, two minutes might be all you need to actually get the cogs turning in your family’s mind and actually just nudge that door open just a little bit to go, “Okay, this is something that we need to think about.” You know, if you’re lucky enough to be starting to think about this stuff when you’re young and you’re not sick, then you’re in an amazing position to be able to form your preferences and have those conversations over a period of time. It’s an evolving conversation.

[00:09:20] Jan Fran: Okay, so I’m not looking at this one chat like it’s the be all and end all. But what if I had bad news like a terminal diagnosis, how would I approach that?

[00:09:31] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: Yeah, I mean that’s tough. And I think the thing that’s tricky about that is it makes everything more real all of a sudden. There are still really similar conversations that we need to be having and I guess the tricky thing is that the time scale is less. You know, you’ve got less time to talk about it in. I think what changes is that we’re not talking about a couple of things at the same time. Most people who get a terminal diagnosis of some sort are still going to hope against hope that they’re going to survive and so they’re going to want to try all the treatments that they can and they’re going to want to try and pursue that and so I think we start thinking about this as a bit of a parallel process two tracks going at the same time. Where on the one hand, you are talking about you’re pursuing, your hoping for treatment, you’re hoping for something to help. On the other side, you’re also thinking about what do we need to be thinking about and preparing for? What decisions do we need to make?

[00:10:21] Jan Fran: What if they get real emotional?

[00:10:23] Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly: I would say firstly that’s okay. I think having someone who’s able to sit with that with you is one of the most valuable things and I think one of the problems for people who are unwell is often that a lot of people in their life don’t know how to sit with that distressing news. I think it’s like we were talking about before, you just need to kind of figure out ways to diffuse a situation. So using your strategies to go on a walk together, cook together at the same time. You just try and do it in small chunks. Start it, start with the easy stuff. Start with the hobbies and feel totally within your rights to stop and start the conversation when it’s getting too full on. 

[00:11:03] Jan Fran: Okay, pop quiz.

Huh? A pop what now?

Name three ways to start a difficult conversation about death, Jan Fran.

Okay, talk to them in the kitchen while they’re doing something. Tell them why you’re bringing this up. Blame the podcast, you can blame this podcast, that’s a great idea. Call out the awkwardness. How did I do?

Excellent work.

Okay time to try it out for reals.

Okay. We’ve decided to give it another go.

[00:11:35] Mira: Yey!

[00:11:37] Jan Fran: So we’re in the kitchen, we’ve decided to cook some spaghetti bolognese.

[00:11:41] Mira: Yummy, yummy.

[00:11:42] Jan Fran: We’ve got a glass of vino here, we’re sober, and we’re just gonna kind of like mosey around and have a discussion about our imminent demise.

[00:11:56] Mira: Pheeew.

[00:11:58] Jan Fran: How are you feeling? Are you feeling more relaxed?

[00:12:00] Mira: Definitely more relaxed.

[00:12:02] Jan Fran: Is it the wine?

[00:12:03] Mira: It’s absolutely the wine.

[00:12:06] Jan Fran: But also this setting does feel more relaxed than just like sitting at a table with a glass of water talking about death, right?

[00:12:12] Mira: Yeah. I think the best way to have difficult conversations is to keep your hands and body occupied in some sort of an activity like going for a walk or —

[00:12:23] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:12:23] Mira: You know what I mean? Like it just keeps your mind a little busy.

[00:12:25] Jan Fran: Yeah. Okay. So I’ve done a good thing.

[00:12:28] Mira: Yeah.

[00:12:28] Jan Fran: So far so good. So I’m in the process of writing a will at the moment.

[00:12:32] Mira: Really?

[00:12:33] Jan Fran: Yeah, I’m actually writing a will.

[00:12:35] Mira: Am I going to benefit from said will?

[00:12:38] Jan Fran: No.

[00:12:39] Mira: What?

[00:12:40] Jan Fran: No. Why would you benefit?

[00:12:41] Mira: Why not?

[00:12:42] Jan Fran: What would I leave to you?

[00:12:43] Mira: Everything.

[00:12:44] Jan Fran: What do you want?

[00:12:45] Mira: The cat?

[00:12:46] Jan Fran: You want my cat?

[00:12:49] Mira: Really? Am I not on your will?

[00:12:50] Jan Fran: I feel like if — No, dude, you’re not in my will. Like I think if both Al and I were to, you know, have a really bad accident and both died at the same time. Then probably you would be on my will if that was to happen. Yes.

[00:13:02] Mira: Great. So I just have to make sure that that happens.

[00:13:08] Jan Fran: And then you would be on my will, you’d get the cat and you’ll probably get maybe the apartment I guess like half of it. I’d have to split it into between you and Helen.

[00:13:17] Mira: See that’d be a good consolation prize. Like I’d be obviously very sad about losing you but, you know, there’s silver lining. You’ve always got a look at the positive.

[00:13:27] Jan Fran: You always got to look at the positive aspect —

[00:13:27] Mira: That’s right.

[00:13:28] Jan Fran: — of your sister dying, is that you get half of her stuff. Good idea. That makes me feel really good. I’ve got two sisters, by the way, that’s why I’d have to split it between Helen and Mira. There you go. And–

[00:13:39] Mira: So I guess these conversations are important.

[00:13:44] Jan Fran: Just be on top of it, is all. Like where your private information might be and who might then have access to it, you know, if and when you pass away.

[00:13:52] Mira: But I’ll be dead so I won’t care.

[00:13:56] Jan Fran: Okay. Fair enough. Do you—

[00:13:58] Mira: I’d be worried if I was a serial killer and was hiding some shit on Facebook or Messenger.

[00:14:06] Jan Fran: Is there something that you want to discuss?

[00:14:09] Mira: Not on the podcast.

[00:14:11] Jan Fran: Do you have a funeral plan?

[00:14:12] Mira: I don’t want a funeral in a Maronite Catholic Church.

[00:14:18] Jan Fran: Okay.

[00:14:19] Mira: Maronite is just the strand of Catholicism that we are born into or raised as. No, thanks. That’s not for me.

[00:14:30] Jan Fran: Yeah, I’d, Have you thought about where you want it?

[00:14:34] Mira: No. I’ve not. I’ve only thought about where I don’t want it.

[00:14:39] Jan Fran: Okay, well..

[00:14:40] Mira: The rest is for you to figure out.

[00:14:42] Jan Fran: Oh you’re happy for your family and friends to do whatever they want?

[00:14:44] Mira: Whatever they feel. Yeah.

[00:14:47] Jan Fran: Okay, well say that. Do you know how much easier that makes it for people?

[00:14:50] Mira: Yeah.

[00:14:52] Jan Fran: Because if everyone knows that, then it’s like, “Okay, sweet. I’ll just do whatever I want. She’s fine with that.” But half the problem is the guessing what someone would have wanted and then two people might guess two different things and hilarity ensues, you know what I mean? Have a low-key conversation every few years. Like we’re doing now. Cook some spaghetti bolognese. Get some wine going, you know.

[00:15:15] Mira: I see.

[00:15:16] Jan Fran: Have a conversation like kind of.

[00:15:18] Mira: Yeah. It just, I see what you’re saying. I see what you’re saying.

[00:15:22] Jan Fran:  Yeah, because otherwise..

[00:15:22] Mira: It just feels like a weird thing. Like is there a really right time and, and..

[00:15:27] Jan Fran: But you can look at it like there’s no right time. Which means that any time is the right time. There you bloody go.

[00:15:32] Mira: Now, how can you argue with that?

[00:15:37] Jan Fran: All right, cool. I think we’re done.

[00:15:38] Mira: Cool beans.

[00:15:40] Jan Fran: Imagine how much worse that would have gone without help from Dr. Ursula Samson-Daly. It’s like we’ve been saying all season, if you put in a bit of work now and have a couple of the hard conversations early, you can pretty much stop worrying about it until you do fall off the perch or at least until your relationship status changes or you have a kid or whatever, but you know what? That’s all just maintenance. You put a good framework in. And that stuff is routine. Really though, my conversation was pretty easy. Yes. I’m definitely gonna die one day but at this point it all feels kind of fairly hypothetical. I mean, I’m healthy. And I think I don’t drink…that much. I don’t smoke unless it’s a dairy that I scabbed off you at a party and I do some kind of celebrity endorsed exercise class 2 to 3 times a week. But imagine how much harder that conversation would be if the hypothetical was taken away if you walked into your local GP one day and were given a time frame. What does that sound like?

[00:16:52] Dean: You never expect it to. You go and see a doctor. You get results of tests and things like that. But we’ve both been very lucky. We’ve never had any major illnesses. And so to suddenly get this, bang. That was really..

[00:17:05] Anna: Just like a bus. Literally it’s like a precisely so, it’s like a bus just wipe you out.

[00:17:11] Dean: Yeah.

[00:17:12] Anna: Just like in a film. Just not really, you know, just really, really?

[00:17:16] Dean: Yeah.

[00:17:16] Anna: Now I know what shock is. I just like, I can remember them talking and I couldn’t hear anything you’re saying. It’s like I just went deaf.

[00:17:25] Dean: Yeah.

[00:17:25] Jan Fran: That’s Anna and Dean Rogers. They’ve been together since they were teenagers and have two sons. In August 2017, Dean was diagnosed with stage 4 terminal lung cancer.

[00:17:37] Dean: I’ve known from day one that there’s no cure for me.

[00:17:42] Jan Fran: They decided to handle it the way they’ve always handled things.

[00:17:45] Dean: Til you have that diagnosis, it brings everything to the forefront. You have to, you have to face this stuff. You can choose to hide away from it, but it ain’t gonna go away.

[00:17:58] Anna: We’re an odd couple. And again, I think that’s because we’ve been together so long. Probably if we met in our twenties we’d be completely different.

[00:18:05] Jan Fran: I don’t think they’d mind me saying that, well, Dean and Anna are big talkers about life and that meant about death as well. They decided straight up to talk about everything they could think of with the time that Dean had left. About how Dean wants to be cared for. Dean has said, “I don’t want to go into intensive care, you know, if you go into intensive care, you won’t be coming out again.”

[00:18:32] Dean: [crosstalk] No. No.

[00:18:33] Jan Fran: Where he wants to die.

[00:18:34] Anna: You’d like to die at home, that’s your wishes.

[00:18:36] Dean: Yeah, in an ideal world.

[00:18:38] Jan Fran: Yeah.

[00:18:38] Anna: But I’m going to keep you at home as long as we can.

[00:18:41] Dean: Yeah. Yeah

[00:18:43] Jan Fran: About the will and family finances.

[00:18:45] Dean: It was through the council counsel and it was a free will. So through all, I guess I’m a free-bono and that was basically very quick

[00:18:56] Anna: It’s so quick. Very quick.

[00:18:57] Jan Fran: About an emotional legacy.

[00:18:59] Dean: Thoughts, feelings, yeah, they’re just basic transport into a book just to let the boys know I’m proud of them. Just as one of my sayings that when things are going wrong the sun will still come up tomorrow. Just, just little things like that.

[00:19:16] Anna: They stress most booster,

[00:19:18] Dean: No, I got sentence in for you which hopefully will make you laugh. I’ve got a very specific one for you.

[00:19:26] Anna: Stop muttering and you don’t listen.

[00:19:28] Dean: Something like that.

[00:19:30] Jan Fran: Or the funeral.

[00:19:31] Dean: Burn me. Don’t bury me because..

[00:19:36] Anna: Cremation.

[00:19:38] Dean: Again, I’m cool with burning, it’s just my dark humour.

[00:19:41] Jan Fran: Now here’s the thing, Dean and Anna both know that the grief won’t be any easier because of the planning but it’s given particularly Dean a sense of control. He has an idea of what Anna and their kids’ lives will look like when he’s gone. Here’s what Dean wants you to know.

[00:20:00] Dean: I think the biggest message, I would like to get across to people about not just my, my journey but having seen other people around me is that there is so much support and help and available if you choose to use it. It’s never forced on you. You do still have a say in what goes on. I’ve always made a point of being open to different treatments and things like that if my oncologist and doctors think its got a viable go. Yet, don’t be afraid to ask for help because of.. I’ve been lucky. I haven’t had to actually ask for anything because there’s been so much offered. There’s probably more than enough for my tiny brain to cope with throughout the journey, but I’ve never felt alone or isolated through the journey of my treatment.

[00:20:55] Jan Fran: I am so grateful that Dean and Anna spoke to us because they’ve helped to demystify this thing that we’re all going to go through which is both massive and somehow incredibly mundane at the same time. You know, I’ve really been thinking about what it all means. That death is just really the start of… Oh, just when I was getting philosophical.

[00:21:26] Grimmy: It’s me your controversial best mate, the Grim Reaper.

[00:21:29] Jan Fran: Grimmy! I’m happy to see you. Even I’ve got to admit, it’s been a wild ride.

[00:21:36] Grimmy: I told you. Let’s take a look back at all we’ve learned together.

Lovely to meet you. I’m here every time someone dies, can’t you tell? With my robe and my scythe, want to hold it?

[00:21:53] Jan Fran: No.

[00:21:55] Grimmy: Who gets the cat? I’d imagine you have several. You’d, sorry, was that a mean thing to say?

[00:22:01] Jan Fran: No, that’s perfect. And I do have several and I plan to accumulate more, frankly.

[00:22:05] Grimmy: Oh good. When you slip, they can’t just do it by themselves, right, can I just keep them?

[00:22:09] Jan Fran: Who’s in hell? Like, I mean, like who do you hang out with down there?

[00:22:12] Grimmy: Well, in my role, it’s more of like a kind of admin role. I don’t actually spend that much time really in hell. I kind of poke my head in see a little bit of the, but I mean, you know, it’s the people you expect to be there.

[00:22:23] Jan Fran: Yeah. Okay. Okay, Grimmy. Do you know like when I’m gonna go or can you can you give me like some insight into that?

[00:22:30] Grimmy: I’ve got pretty hard and fast rules about not telling people exactly. But all I would say is—

[00:22:36] Jan Fran: But like am I in water or am I in the like sky or am I on land? Can you give me—

[00:22:40] Grimmy: All I’ll say is skip Falls Festivals 2030. Don’t fear the Reaper, but also you should fear the Reaper, I have many pals. I can kill you. Hey, I’ve got news. You’re not the only one who’s changed. For a while, I thought I loved being the door bitch to the underworld. But what I really loved with, let’s be honest, the cloak and the kudos I got from the management.

[00:23:09] Jan Fran: What?

[00:23:10] Grimmy: So I think it’s time for me to retire. Sure you might look at me and think, “He’s young,” by Grim Reaper standards, but I only took the gig because I wanted a good seat to the Gladiator battles. If I’m honest, I’m an empath really.

[00:23:22] Jan Fran: So what are you going to do now?

[00:23:24] Grimmy: I’ve decided to take an internship as Santa. We’ll see what happens. I mean look, I don’t have a face and I have to remember not to hug the children.

[00:23:35] Jan Fran: Oh Grimmy. I’d give you a hug right now, but that seem like a terrible idea.

[00:23:40] Grimmy: Yeah, don’t touch me.

[00:23:44] Jan Fran: What a whirlwind right? Time to take stock. What are the things we’ve learned? You can handle conversations about this and you can do it at any stage of your life. There are so many lessons here, but if I had to choose just three, because this is The Pineapple Project and I’m contractually obliged to do so, I choose the following: One, write a will and update it when your circumstances change, where do the the kids go, who gets the 1992 Holden Barina. So much could be disputed and you don’t want to cause fights. So will it up. Two, when it comes to funeral planning the crucial thing that you need to know is always ask for an itemized breakdown of costs. The funeral home has to give it to you and this could save you megabucks. And three, talk to your family about what you’d be prepared to live with if you couldn’t speak for yourself and then write that down in an advanced care plan. Go to advancecareplanning.org.au for more info. With all of this, it really helps to have these conversations to highly dramatic music. Choose something special like Evanescence or Pavarotti’s pop album and we want to know how you’re going. Have you listened to this podcast and DIY-ed your death? Maybe you’ve written a will, maybe you’ve contested a will. Let us know how it’s going. Give us a call and leave us a message on 1-300-641-222. I’m Jan Fran, this is The Pineapple Project and together we are doing death better.

We wanted to give you an update about Dean and Anna. Since recording this interview, Dean has passed away. Our thoughts are with Anna and their sons. We cannot thank him and Anna enough for giving us their precious time to talk.

[00:25:46] Dean: I’ve often said to Anna, I said, “When I die, just fold me up and stick me in the garbage bin.”

[00:25:52] Anna: I hate it when you say that.

[00:25:53] Jan Fran: Well that didn’t happen. Anna told us that Dean was farewell-ed at a small family service like he wanted and his friends had beers for him at the pub Angelo.

The Pineapple Project is mixed by sound engineers Angie Grant and Krissy Miltiadou. It’s produced by Karla Arnall and Clare O’Halloran. The role of Grimmy, the Grim Reaper is played by Rhys Nicholson the podcast executive producer. He’s over Rachel Fountain. Kellie Riordan is the manager of ABC Audio Studios. And I am your host, Jan Fran, and what a pleasure it has been to have you along with me for this series.

It’s just mooch and friends sliding back into your ear holes after signing off, classic me. Hey, so this whole topic, death and dying and where do we go? It kind of makes you ask some of the big questions right? Like what does it all mean? Well you, my friends, are not alone. Comedian Judith Lucy is also wondering what the hell is going on. Listen to the full eight episodes of the ABC podcast Judith Lucy is Overwhelmed and Dying.

[00:27:20] Judith Lucy: I’m Judith Lucy and I’m overwhelmed and dying. Just before turning 50, I realized that I was totally overwhelmed by the state of the world and my own life, but I also felt like time was running out. So the question is how to make the most of the years that I have left on this planet. That’s right. I’m going to solve my problems. Oh and yours over the course of a mere eight episodes. Yeah, that’s all I’ll need because I’ll actually be chatting to some people who really know what they’re talking about and having some vaguely humiliating experiences both of which will hopefully help us learn some stuff like never discuss your banking password with a loved one. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry and you’ll be just thrilled that you’re not me. 

 

End of transcription. Total audio minute: [28 min 18 sec]

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